JoeN:

I recently posted a review of the new Piper Meridian on the blog section.  If you have comments or want to discuss the review please do so here.

Turboprop_Pilot:

Joe:  A good review.  I fly a 2001 Meridian and really enjoy the plane.  It has a couple of short comings that should be known:

The real world range is 800 miles- you need at least 200 lbs of reserve, even in good weather.  I has 380 lbs predicted at my destination, which used the ASOS of a field 12 miles away.  All through my flight the ASOS showed 12,000' ceilings.  I flew the approach and had to execute a miss due to local fog.  I diverted to a field 20 miles away which was clear and landed with only 170 lbs- turbines really burn fuel down low!

The P&W engine has a magnesium cast inlet housing. My aircraft was kept by San Francisco Bay for 7 years and corrosion was discovered in the inlet while Sun Aviation was replacing the engine mount under a warrenty program.  Several other engines have been found to have this problem by Sun and I was told that Beachcraft had the same problems in King Airs and changed to an aluminum casting.

A great flying plane but with limited range and payload.

Turboprop_Pilot

wihl:

Inspired by Joe's public PIREP on his Meridian flight, I published to my blog my Meridian PIREP back in Nov.

http://davidwihl.blogspot.com/

Joe,

The Malibu/Mirage/Meridian is THE most reviewed GA design in history, more than even the much maligned MU-2.  Like the MU-2, the Meridian (and Malibu/Mirage) IS a safe plane, but like all planes it has limits - the difference is you fly closer to those limits in high performance aircraft like the Meridian, or almost any other turbine powered aircraft.

Pilot competence is the most important factor.  Know what you are doing, pay attention to what the plane is doing, monitor and manage the systems effectively and you can fly anything.  Most breakups are due to the autopilot doing something the pilot did not notice and when he did finally notice his reaction was inappropriate for the situation/circumstance and overstressed the airframe.

Training is always very important, but even more so when we move out of Bonanza's and into faster, more capable aircraft.

ColdWetMackarelofReality:

Joe,

The Malibu/Mirage/Meridian is THE most reviewed GA design in history, more than even the much maligned MU-2.  Like the MU-2, the Meridian (and Malibu/Mirage) IS a safe plane, but like all planes it has limits - the difference is you fly closer to those limits in high performance aircraft like the Meridian, or almost any other turbine powered aircraft.

Pilot competence is the most important factor.  Know what you are doing, pay attention to what the plane is doing, monitor and manage the systems effectively and you can fly anything.  Most breakups are due to the autopilot doing something the pilot did not notice and when he did finally notice his reaction was inappropriate for the situation/circumstance and overstressed the airframe.

Training is always very important, but even more so when we move out of Bonanza's and into faster, more capable aircraft.

ColdWetMackarelofReality:

Joe,

The Malibu/Mirage/Meridian is THE most reviewed GA design in history, more than even the much maligned MU-2.  Like the MU-2, the Meridian (and Malibu/Mirage) IS a safe plane,

The Meridian has the SLOWEST Vmo (188kts) of ANY presurized TP airplane. Vno/Va can be as low as 127kts at light weights. Every Meridian pilot while flying low is constantly having to pull the power back to avoid busting the Vmo. Even in cruise flying in the 20s you are pressing right up against Vmo.

That puts the pilot and plane in a trick position. Any upset (such as CAT, autopilot roll) or pilot innatention (such as failure to reduce power on descent) immediatelly puts excessive stress on the airframe. There is no buffer. Few of us would be operating our planes right against redline. However, the Meridian pilot has no choice if he wants to enjoy the speeds.

That is the difference ColdWet. Yes, the Meridian is safe if operated within its envelope, HOWEVER, normal Meridian operation puts the pilot and the airframe right against that envelope limit most of the time. THAT is NOT safe.

In addition, it is clear that some airframes have a much, much higher margin above and beyond the certification limits. And it shows on accident records. Mooneys (M20J and later) for example are very clean and easy to overspeed/overstress, yet there is no in-flight-breakup issue on those airframes. Malibus, despite being flown by better trained pilots have a substantial issue. Is it due to presurization and flying high - I don't think so. I'm willing to bet that the Piper Matrix will have a substantially worse IFB record than the Mooneys.

FAA requirements should be the minimum, not the optimum safety margins. Malibus and Meridians simply cut it too closely to the minimuns.

B95,

I believe we are in violent agreement.  In the part of my original post that you did not snip I said essentially the same thing you did - you are flying closer to the limits in the Malibu/Mirage/Meridian than in say a Mooney as you pointed out.

Altitude and pressurization DO have an impact on IFSB both in terms of the potential energy and also in terms of the stresses on the airframe.

I can accept that it is too close for comfort for Joe, or for you - and I am not an advocate for the Malibu/Mirage/Meridian, I have not flown it, do not own one.

Just pointing out that like other ships that are operated close to the limit like the MU-2, these types of aircraft are less tolerant of pilot error and inattention.

I would also suggest that for the piston versions especially but also the Meridian, the PA-46 has a price point that attracts a different quality pilot/owner than does a TBM or especially the Pilatus - theses are not the same kind of pilots - like comparing a C-150 pilot to a P-210 pilot - simply not the same class. 

This is actually one of my primary concerns about the VLJ class in general and the Eclipse 500 in particular, it seems to open up access to a class of performance which used to have a certain barrier to entry that helped keep less qualified/capable pilots out of harms' way.  Look at the introduction of other performance changing aircraft, the Bonanza, the Malibu, the LearJet, even the Citation - in the hands of poorly qualified or poorly trained pilots they are dangerous.

It is my belief that we each have the responsibility to set equipment minimums, and training/experience minimums, just like weather minimums - and those decisions should be made on good info.  Good info is that the Malibu/Mirage/Meridian are safe designs when flown within limits, just like every other plane out there - yes the margins may be different than other aircraft but different is not bad.

Turboprop_Pilot:

JoeN,

You put the problem clearer than I have heard before.  The Meridian is nearly always flown at Vmo and its maneuvering speed is quite slow, so if unexpected turbulence is encountered, the airframe is stressed to a higher level than other turbine aircraft, whose maneuvering speed is closer to their Vmo.  If yu have the data, it would be interesting to see how many breakups and wing bends have occured vs flight hours.  Since the TBM has been around longer and has more flight hours with NO problems of structural over stress or breakup, it is clearly a safer plane.  When training in my TBM, I was told that the Vmo for the same aircraft as used by the French Air Force was 305 kts!

I saw the PiperJet wing on a factory tour- it is a couple of feet longer in span, built beefier and has a larger fuel capacity.  If Piper replaced the present Meridian wing with the PiperJet wing, they would acquire several major benefits:  Lower stall speed, higher useful load, more fuel and much better strength in the wing!

Turboprop_Pilot

ColdWetMackarelofReality:

 Look at the introduction of other performance changing aircraft, the Bonanza, the Malibu, the LearJet, even the Citation - in the hands of poorly qualified or poorly trained pilots they are dangerous.

It is very true that certain airplane introductions with a step in performance in the past, the Bonanza being a great example as you pointed out, have caused problems. It is also true that others have not - the citation 500/501 for instance had a great safety record at first.

I am hoping that in this day and age, where we know so much more about pilot training, have full motion simulations, mentor/transitioning programs, insurance underwriters, and an ATP-standard checkride, that few, if any, un-euiped pilots will squeak through the cracks into the cockpit of say an EA500. I actually feel pretty good about the prospects. Note that any joe-smoe with a private pilot ticket can buy a used King Air B200 for $500K and go flying with no insurance, no additional training, etc. The regs are all screwed up. A type rating would be required to fly a 25K-limitted, 5,000lbs diamond jet, but not to fly a 30K-capable 12,500lbs King Air B200. I don't know anyone who thinks that B200 (particularly the older models) is easier to handle.

reposting a comment from Bill on the blog: